Untangled with Charley Johnson
Untangled
OpenAI’s mythology, Meta’s secret, and Microsoft’s hypocrisy.
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OpenAI’s mythology, Meta’s secret, and Microsoft’s hypocrisy.

An interview with AI writer and reporter, Karen Hao

Hi, I’m Charley, and this is Untangled, a newsletter about our sociotechnical world, and how to change it.

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This week, I’m sharing my conversation with Karen Hao, an award-winning writer covering artificial intelligence for The Atlantic. We discuss:

  • Karen’s investigation into Microsoft’s hypocrisy on AI and climate change.

  • How OpenAI’s mythology reminds Karen of Dune. (I can’t stop thinking about the connection after Karen made it.)

  • How Meta uses shell companies to hide from community scrutiny when building new data centers.

  • How AI discourse should change and what Karen is doing to train journalists on how to report on AI.

  • How to shift power within tech companies. Employee organizing? Community advocacy? Reporting that rejects narratives premised on future promises and innovation for its own sake? Yes.

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Reflections on the last week

I interviewed Karen on the morning of the election. I hesitated to share the episode this Sunday but ultimately decided to release it because it’s a conversation about big, structural problems, and what we can do about them. The election results affirm for me the pivot I announced a few weeks ago. Namely, we can’t solve existing problems or fix broken institutions such that they return us to the status quo. We’re (still!) not going back. We have to transform existing sociotechnical systems as we address the rot that lies beneath. We must imagine alternative futures and align our individual and collective actions to them. We have to live these futures today, and then tomorrow.

One day at a time,

Charley

Discussion about this podcast

Untangled with Charley Johnson
Untangled
Untangled is a podcast about technology, people, and power.